i like this part, and i also feel conflicted about it: "I say that to clarify that first-order vanity, despite its comparative simplicity, is not the same as confidence, but rather an imitation of it. To admire oneself in the mirror is to still be looking for answers" -> maybe the intention of looking the mirror can change, depending on the person/the moment? sometimes i think wanting self assurance is ok (and not vain) if it's more part of a process of connection or acknowledgment. like 'hi, yes, i am real and i look great!' can be a confidence practice for those of us that aren't past "the glance" yet (is anyone, ever, past it?). sometimes i think we're all not so vain as we are anxious/dissociated - and there's something sort of grounding about the mirror/the camera (or we sense/hope there could be something grounding there, even if there are lots of other nasty things there too). to admire oneself could be an amazing and fun and important thing if you normally think badly of yourself. but i get the point here too... maybe to "check" oneself in the mirror is to still be looking for answers to "am i enough/ok/hot/cool?" but admiration can be more like (finger guns and a smile)... ya know?
I agree, and at 49, admiring or looking at myself in the mirror now vacillates between vainly checking if I'm "still hot", to lamenting spending so much time comparing myself to others and being blind to my own beauty - possibly looking for forgiveness, but definitely not for answers.
so... the orders are: 1) i care how i appear. 2) i care about how much i appear to care how i appear. 3) i care about how much i appear to care about how much i appear to care how i appear. OR more simply: 1) i want people to think i am hot/cool. 2) i want people to think i am unselfconsciously hot/cool. 3) i want people to think i am neutral as to whether they think i am unselfconsciously hot/cool.
I love that you brought back some hyperreality and DFW into your critical analysis. It seems fitting when discussing “reality” tv shows that are anything but real. I think the weirdest piece about reality tv is that there are so many layers of perception. Instead of watching a play where both the audience and actors know it’s a performance, we are watching a play where the actors may or may not be acting, and may not know themselves whether they are acting, which honestly mirrors real life in a way, because many of us are dissembling in myriad small ways without even knowing it (bcuz, as you say so eloquently, we are all a little vain). What disturbs me about reality tv and by extension social media influencers that are 3rd order vain, is that, not only do they not care about being perceived as modest, that don’t care about embodying any virtue at all. They care only about being watchable.
Which reminds me of another DFW quote: “For 360 minutes per diem, we receive unconscious reinforcement of the deep thesis that the most significant feature of truly alive persons is watchableness, and that genuine human worth is not just identical with but rooted in the phenomenon of watching.”
I feel like this shift from being fake modest or fake nice to being fake confident or fake manipulative is being born out in advertising… Like DFW always talked about how advertising used to co-opt irony “How can, even the idea of rebellion against corporate culture stay meaningful when Chrysler Inc. advertises trucks by invoking ‘The Dodge Rebellion?’”, to now corporations and celebrities like American Eagle and Sydney Sweeney being perfectly okay with employing rage bait if it gets them engagement.
I think people can certainly project confidence they don’t feel IRL. They don’t mind admitting the effort they put in to their appearance, the jokes they make, etc., because they’re “hot and funny!” But it can often be transparent how insecure they actually are despite the attempt at seeming self assured
I think so! The piece says "I define third-order vanity not by performed modesty but by performed confidence. [...] I suspect the rise of self-conscious confidence is actually a reaction to the fall of self-conscious modesty, which became corny and over-exposed over time. [...] What’s important to the third-order vain is that they’re avoiding the pitfalls of the second-order vain, who refuse to admit just how hard they’re trying. The irony is that the third-order vain are trying too, just to achieve different ends. Think of the insecure straight guy who’s publicly homophobic to project masculinity (second-order) versus the insecure straight guy who publicly queerbaits because he knows it will make him seem even more confident in his sexuality than the homophobic guy (third-order)."
I believe Haley's point was just that social media promotes second and third order vanity because social media is ONLY projection, but I think they can be present in IRL behavior when you're attempting to perform a version of yourself for others that may not actually reflect your "true self," whatever that even is! Reality TV is a good example of blurring these lines between the public image posted to Instagram and the "real" self who goes to the grocery store. You're ostensibly just being yourself on camera, but of course you know you're being watched so you're curating how others perceive you. But we all do that in our real lives to some extent too!
We’re always projecting some image of ourselves when we interact with another person. At least the other person has their own unique image of us created from all the past interactions or if it’s the first interaction from the most superficial and initial observations.
Proust said it well:
“But then, even in the most insignificant details
of our daily life, none of us can be said to constitute a material whole,
which is identical for everyone, and need only be turned up like a page in
an account-book or the record of a will; our social personality is created
Ahh this is such a poignant take you've both uncovered. The line between IRL and social media (if a line, to kerry's point, exists at all). As a younger millennial with older Gen X siblings, I tend to fall into David's camp: There is "real life" and there is "perceived life on social media." But would LOVE an essay from Maybe Baby on this. Fascinating!
Love this! To add on a subtheory, i think that being a therapized generation is playing a role in the development of this. Being equipped with awareness of self can help you embody different ways of being or a healthy response toward something like insecurity. Or, it can lead to novel ways of coping, it’s like trying to outsmart behavior by masking further vs changing. Enter third-wave vanity!
This reminds me of a past Maybe Baby article about the “diminishing returns of self-awareness.” The more self-aware, the more neurotic we become. Blind spots can be merciful, particularly because we can never fully witness who we are and it’s all subjective anyway!
Something I’m noticing in my mid-30s: the popular idea that you stop caring what people think as you get older is perhaps more accurately you realise how little control you have over people’s opinions of you so you might as well just do your thing. It’s a subtle difference but I’ve found it quite transformative!
Haley, have you read Perfection by Vincenzo Latronico yet? The whole book is a searing examination of this exact phenomenon, and the emptiness that our constant awareness of being perceived has created. Highly recommend!
What is the right balance between self awareness and self confidence? When does too much self confidence become unaware of oneself? *When does too much self awareness turn into self consciousness?* --
I think post college I was realizing that I may come across as not self aware sometimes, but then it made me slip onto the side of being self conscious and it was really hard to get out of there and go back to self confident while still maintaining my self awareness
❤️ your sentence about self conscious confidence being a reaction to self conscious modesty made me look for this in my notes app
Ottessa Moshfegh apparently has/had a note on her computer that read “vanity is the enemy.” Something about that fact always stuck with me, but also, is it even possible to scold yourself out of vanity?
Can someone in like 1-2 sentences define third order vanity? This is just not computing for me
i like this part, and i also feel conflicted about it: "I say that to clarify that first-order vanity, despite its comparative simplicity, is not the same as confidence, but rather an imitation of it. To admire oneself in the mirror is to still be looking for answers" -> maybe the intention of looking the mirror can change, depending on the person/the moment? sometimes i think wanting self assurance is ok (and not vain) if it's more part of a process of connection or acknowledgment. like 'hi, yes, i am real and i look great!' can be a confidence practice for those of us that aren't past "the glance" yet (is anyone, ever, past it?). sometimes i think we're all not so vain as we are anxious/dissociated - and there's something sort of grounding about the mirror/the camera (or we sense/hope there could be something grounding there, even if there are lots of other nasty things there too). to admire oneself could be an amazing and fun and important thing if you normally think badly of yourself. but i get the point here too... maybe to "check" oneself in the mirror is to still be looking for answers to "am i enough/ok/hot/cool?" but admiration can be more like (finger guns and a smile)... ya know?
I agree, and at 49, admiring or looking at myself in the mirror now vacillates between vainly checking if I'm "still hot", to lamenting spending so much time comparing myself to others and being blind to my own beauty - possibly looking for forgiveness, but definitely not for answers.
so... the orders are: 1) i care how i appear. 2) i care about how much i appear to care how i appear. 3) i care about how much i appear to care about how much i appear to care how i appear. OR more simply: 1) i want people to think i am hot/cool. 2) i want people to think i am unselfconsciously hot/cool. 3) i want people to think i am neutral as to whether they think i am unselfconsciously hot/cool.
"the dead-eyed stare with so much life behind it she’s basically levitating" 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀
but in all seriousness, this one was a real delight!! :)
love this so much. miss all this theorizing of maybe baby <3
I love that you brought back some hyperreality and DFW into your critical analysis. It seems fitting when discussing “reality” tv shows that are anything but real. I think the weirdest piece about reality tv is that there are so many layers of perception. Instead of watching a play where both the audience and actors know it’s a performance, we are watching a play where the actors may or may not be acting, and may not know themselves whether they are acting, which honestly mirrors real life in a way, because many of us are dissembling in myriad small ways without even knowing it (bcuz, as you say so eloquently, we are all a little vain). What disturbs me about reality tv and by extension social media influencers that are 3rd order vain, is that, not only do they not care about being perceived as modest, that don’t care about embodying any virtue at all. They care only about being watchable.
Which reminds me of another DFW quote: “For 360 minutes per diem, we receive unconscious reinforcement of the deep thesis that the most significant feature of truly alive persons is watchableness, and that genuine human worth is not just identical with but rooted in the phenomenon of watching.”
I feel like this shift from being fake modest or fake nice to being fake confident or fake manipulative is being born out in advertising… Like DFW always talked about how advertising used to co-opt irony “How can, even the idea of rebellion against corporate culture stay meaningful when Chrysler Inc. advertises trucks by invoking ‘The Dodge Rebellion?’”, to now corporations and celebrities like American Eagle and Sydney Sweeney being perfectly okay with employing rage bait if it gets them engagement.
I hit the like button by the end of paragraph 2 if that gives you any indication as to how much of a banger this one is
It seems as if you're describing something that for the most part does not happen IRL.
I think people can certainly project confidence they don’t feel IRL. They don’t mind admitting the effort they put in to their appearance, the jokes they make, etc., because they’re “hot and funny!” But it can often be transparent how insecure they actually are despite the attempt at seeming self assured
Is that third order vanity? I think I’m confused!
I think so! The piece says "I define third-order vanity not by performed modesty but by performed confidence. [...] I suspect the rise of self-conscious confidence is actually a reaction to the fall of self-conscious modesty, which became corny and over-exposed over time. [...] What’s important to the third-order vain is that they’re avoiding the pitfalls of the second-order vain, who refuse to admit just how hard they’re trying. The irony is that the third-order vain are trying too, just to achieve different ends. Think of the insecure straight guy who’s publicly homophobic to project masculinity (second-order) versus the insecure straight guy who publicly queerbaits because he knows it will make him seem even more confident in his sexuality than the homophobic guy (third-order)."
I believe Haley's point was just that social media promotes second and third order vanity because social media is ONLY projection, but I think they can be present in IRL behavior when you're attempting to perform a version of yourself for others that may not actually reflect your "true self," whatever that even is! Reality TV is a good example of blurring these lines between the public image posted to Instagram and the "real" self who goes to the grocery store. You're ostensibly just being yourself on camera, but of course you know you're being watched so you're curating how others perceive you. But we all do that in our real lives to some extent too!
We’re always projecting some image of ourselves when we interact with another person. At least the other person has their own unique image of us created from all the past interactions or if it’s the first interaction from the most superficial and initial observations.
Proust said it well:
“But then, even in the most insignificant details
of our daily life, none of us can be said to constitute a material whole,
which is identical for everyone, and need only be turned up like a page in
an account-book or the record of a will; our social personality is created
by the thoughts of other people.”
Excerpt From
Swann's Way
Marcel Proust
This material may be protected by copyright.
But the digital world/internet/social media is real life now, no? I no longer think the IRL is separate from that!
I hope not! At least for me it’s not but ‘m 63 so my POV is shaped by my age.
So fair!!!! I'm 27 and love seeing the diff perspectives in this comment section
Ahh this is such a poignant take you've both uncovered. The line between IRL and social media (if a line, to kerry's point, exists at all). As a younger millennial with older Gen X siblings, I tend to fall into David's camp: There is "real life" and there is "perceived life on social media." But would LOVE an essay from Maybe Baby on this. Fascinating!
Love this! To add on a subtheory, i think that being a therapized generation is playing a role in the development of this. Being equipped with awareness of self can help you embody different ways of being or a healthy response toward something like insecurity. Or, it can lead to novel ways of coping, it’s like trying to outsmart behavior by masking further vs changing. Enter third-wave vanity!
This reminds me of a past Maybe Baby article about the “diminishing returns of self-awareness.” The more self-aware, the more neurotic we become. Blind spots can be merciful, particularly because we can never fully witness who we are and it’s all subjective anyway!
Something I’m noticing in my mid-30s: the popular idea that you stop caring what people think as you get older is perhaps more accurately you realise how little control you have over people’s opinions of you so you might as well just do your thing. It’s a subtle difference but I’ve found it quite transformative!
Haley, have you read Perfection by Vincenzo Latronico yet? The whole book is a searing examination of this exact phenomenon, and the emptiness that our constant awareness of being perceived has created. Highly recommend!
JUST told my husband this morning that DFW is about to be so back.
He so precisely predicted … well, everything.
Also love that Haley has included footnotes like DFW, often my favourite parts of his essays!
💯
Some questions I grappled w a lot post college:
What is the right balance between self awareness and self confidence? When does too much self confidence become unaware of oneself? *When does too much self awareness turn into self consciousness?* --
I think post college I was realizing that I may come across as not self aware sometimes, but then it made me slip onto the side of being self conscious and it was really hard to get out of there and go back to self confident while still maintaining my self awareness
❤️ your sentence about self conscious confidence being a reaction to self conscious modesty made me look for this in my notes app
Loved this essay ❤️🔥
Second-wave vanity is exactly what made emo kids so gratinggggg to me as a tween/teen
Ottessa Moshfegh apparently has/had a note on her computer that read “vanity is the enemy.” Something about that fact always stuck with me, but also, is it even possible to scold yourself out of vanity?
Is this finally the answer to why I can't stand Anne Hathaway