(66 mins) | Thanks so much for all your thoughtful engagement under my last newsletter, “#24: The Emily Ratajkowski effect.” It’s been one of the more nerve-wracking but ultimately satisfying writing experiences I’ve had in a while. This week I brought on my friend and former editor Mallory Rice to discuss all of it—Emrata’s essay, her brand of feminism, my response, and your responses to my response (both positive and critical).
I really love these podcasts where you delve into the subject, especially with another person, and then save the reading for last. I always enjoy your newsletters, but I think this one struck a special chord with me (and a lot of people!) because of its ability to make me think in a more nuanced way
Consideration: reading your newsletter first, and then follow with guests, etc? I don’t always get to reading the newsletter and often resort to the podcast. To hear the newsletter first followed by the dialogue may provide more context! That’s all! Thanks for this, as always.
In the middle of listening to this now - I think if people reacted by thinking it was just a piece of storytelling about power dynamics - a lot of people at the moment reduce politics to exactly that: storytelling about power dynamics.
But I think there's just so much more going on with EmRata's and, listening to your discussion, I find her piece is framed like this caterpillar -->butterfly kind of empowering evolution, but what she's actually describing is a very static situation that she kind of has to dissociate from.
And for what it's worth, having written for a tiny bullshit feminist blog for years, if you take anything a little further than either "she's telling stories about power dynamics, which is political and empowering" or "she's a terrible privileged bitch whore colluding with men", you get exactly that response, many hundreds of times. Because people don't think politics goes any further than that, if you're from an oppressed demographic of any kind. It's either pure storytelling, or it's collaboration.
I think there's so much more going on in EmRata's piece, both in terms of the branding exercise, and in that she's doing more than straightforward storytelling, and in terms of how the more woke, radical, "leftist" but not really branch of feminism has been going over the last years, it's so moralistic and confining, so much more so than "choice" feminism, which is already not that great, but it's better than being treated almost directly as the embodiment of morality. It's more leeway than the left offers right now.
... and in terms of branding, there's a lot of fatigue around people apologising, self-examining, being "complicated" and "messy" (both cop-outs), and all that liberal navel-gazing. It's like, everyone's sick of that, it rings hollow and it probably feels a lot more superficial and just, nauseating, than posting your butt all over instagram.
thanks for this, Haley & Mallory — really helps to have the context with the podcast, esp for this particular newsletter. also, pb and honey sandwiches are a game-changer
I really love these podcasts where you delve into the subject, especially with another person, and then save the reading for last. I always enjoy your newsletters, but I think this one struck a special chord with me (and a lot of people!) because of its ability to make me think in a more nuanced way
This was illuminating in a lot of ways. Also grateful to not be the only one eating peanut butter sandwiches lately.
Consideration: reading your newsletter first, and then follow with guests, etc? I don’t always get to reading the newsletter and often resort to the podcast. To hear the newsletter first followed by the dialogue may provide more context! That’s all! Thanks for this, as always.
In the middle of listening to this now - I think if people reacted by thinking it was just a piece of storytelling about power dynamics - a lot of people at the moment reduce politics to exactly that: storytelling about power dynamics.
But I think there's just so much more going on with EmRata's and, listening to your discussion, I find her piece is framed like this caterpillar -->butterfly kind of empowering evolution, but what she's actually describing is a very static situation that she kind of has to dissociate from.
And for what it's worth, having written for a tiny bullshit feminist blog for years, if you take anything a little further than either "she's telling stories about power dynamics, which is political and empowering" or "she's a terrible privileged bitch whore colluding with men", you get exactly that response, many hundreds of times. Because people don't think politics goes any further than that, if you're from an oppressed demographic of any kind. It's either pure storytelling, or it's collaboration.
I think there's so much more going on in EmRata's piece, both in terms of the branding exercise, and in that she's doing more than straightforward storytelling, and in terms of how the more woke, radical, "leftist" but not really branch of feminism has been going over the last years, it's so moralistic and confining, so much more so than "choice" feminism, which is already not that great, but it's better than being treated almost directly as the embodiment of morality. It's more leeway than the left offers right now.
... and in terms of branding, there's a lot of fatigue around people apologising, self-examining, being "complicated" and "messy" (both cop-outs), and all that liberal navel-gazing. It's like, everyone's sick of that, it rings hollow and it probably feels a lot more superficial and just, nauseating, than posting your butt all over instagram.
thanks for this, Haley & Mallory — really helps to have the context with the podcast, esp for this particular newsletter. also, pb and honey sandwiches are a game-changer